Need help to understand override modes

S2400
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I’m trying to figure out the concept behind all override modes, and why there is one for playback, and one for record.

  • I have recorded a pattern.
  • Say i want to change the 3x pitch of the last 3x tracks at the same time
  • I activate A for all those tracks
  • I can ear the pitch changing in real time when i tweak faders
  • I want to record this, i hit record, but then, A is disabled for all tracks (??)
  • I activate A again in record mode, i tweak faders again, and i don’t ear any realtime pitch moving anymore…

Why ? This is a very strange workflow.

Does this mean you can’t record any automation without an associated trigger ?

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If you want to apply the pitch settings to the last 3 tracks, you press A to activate playback override for that track, then you hear the changes in real time. Then press the A-button+pad to commit the changes to that track. That will modify the pattern with the current set value for all hits on that track.

That’s playback override mode.

For record overwrite mode, you need to have the record button activated and then press A. Now you’re in record overwrite mode and you press and hold the pad and it overwrites the values of previously recorded trigs. So you can go in and momentarily (by holding pad) change values of for a specific drum hit for example.

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Ok but what’s the purpose of having 2x differents methods for overriding data ? I don’t understand, it’s cumbersome to me. If it’s there, there must be a pratical reason i have not understood yet.

Also, having to press a pad to commit changes is weird, i don’t have enough fingers to press pads when i want to record 8x pitch faders automation at the same time. It’s breaking the flow of interpretation, that use the creative part of the brain instead of the other part you use to do cold technical stuff.

I think that for everybody, when you press record, you expect the machine to record everything (pot and faders) instantly, without having to press multiple pads. When you are recording automation, you should not have to think, the less move you have to make, the better. It must be straight forward.

So for me, the natural way would be this :

In playback mode, override is on everytime, no need to press A or B. Like this you don’t have to think, you press pitch, you tweak a fader, and boom, the pitch is changing. But nothing is stored, and at any time you can recall the initial kit state.

In record mode, every move made to filters and faders are instantly recorded. Without having to press A or B or a pad, because if you press record, it’s to record. No need to have an extra step "are you sure you want to record ?’.

But again, maybe i miss something.

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One method is for changing the parameters of the whole track (all hits) and the other for changing some of the recorded hits.

This machine doesn’t really have automation in the sense we are used to in a daw for example. That might be a feature that will be added in the future though, who knows. You can’t really record a filter sweep or volume automation. Every recorded pad hit is static in a way.

What it does is everytime you record a pad hit the current parameters is applied to that hit. So you record some snare hits for example, then move the pitch fader and the hits recorded after that will have the new pitch while leaving the old ones as they where recorded. This is where playback override and modify pattern is handy when you want to change all the hits on that track to the current set pitch value.

What you’re suggesting with override mode being on all the time would take away the possibilty to have different parameters values for different hits on same track, since the current parameter values would just constantly override the stuff you recorded in. This feature is really powerful and a big part of the workflow of this machine. I understand it can be a little hard to get used to at first, especially if you come from some other machines. But the way this works is for me one of the biggest reason why I like this machine so much. It’s a little bit similar to the OP1 tape workflow but more flexible and the possibility to modify stuff after it’s recorded is always there when you need it.

It’s also really nice to be able to activate playback override and do your tweaking, and be able to A/B compare the changes by turning override on/off. Then if you decide you wanna do the change you sort of “print” it with modify pattern. This is also very useful for live performances working as kind of like a parameter snapshot feature.

And what you’re saying with recalling initial kit state, how would that work? What is the initial kit state? The way it sounded when you loaded it in, or the way it sounded before you made the last 5 tweaks?

I quess if you really want override on all the time you could make a project template and simply have override on for all modes all the time. That could be problematic when you press record and the machine switches to record overwrite though.

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Thanks for your answer, i understand now.

I see, but then, if i press record and do any tweak, i expect new data to be auto stored on each pre existing step when the playhead pass thru. It doesn’t seems to be the case now, you need to press individual pad to do so. Not great when you want to record “automation” live.

Yes, recall the pattern initial stored state.

Then maybe you can do both with only one override mode :

  • Activate A/B → Tweak → press A + pad = changing the parameters of the whole track
  • Keep a pad pressed → Tweak = changing parameter only for this pad
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That was my question too. Not why do playback and record override modes exist but why is it possible to activate them separately? Is there a particular use case I’m missing?

Doesn’t it always make sense to have a single override mode which just works differently in play vs. record mode, but can be activated/deactivated for both of them?

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The ‘instant gratification’ in the manual could do with being expanded a bit to take into account the override. OR it needs a ‘instant gratification next level’ page where it goes over the basic workflow but includes override methods. It’s a fundamental workflow for the machine and isn’t covered too well, leaving many users a bit baffled, including experienced YouTube reviewers! :slight_smile:

I think the video manual only mentions override in the ‘Firmware Updates, Hints and Tips’ and then in not too much detail. I think Override needs it’s own video.

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I am new to the machine, most features can be explored but the fader overwrites gave me a hard time. I think there are too many safety nets involved which slow down workflow, especially for a beginner.
There is

  • Lock Faders
  • Lock All Faders
  • Playback Override for Filters
  • Record Override for Filters
  • Playback Override for selected mode
  • Record Override for selected mode
  • A/B → Pad commit

It’s the Ford Knox of fader locks.
For me a general faderlock plus the pad commit function to alter recorded material would be sufficient/better. But I guess after some time I will become more familar with it.

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In addition there is a related bug in 2021-10-09 Update I am not 100% sure how to reproduce but basically sometimes I run into a condition where the function of Lock Faders is reversed, e.g.
Lock Faders num keys 8-9 are highlighted but faders are picked up. And when I disengage Lock Faders num keys 8-9 are not highlighted but faders are blocked.
Holding shift and moving a fader fixes that behaviour.

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That has been reported and fixed in dev. It will be in the next update.

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Im guessing the reason it started out this way is that the sp1200 locks its pitch settings along with its note info. I def get alot of mileage throwing in different parameters settings as the sequencer cycles, its pretty cool to work this way. One interesting side effect of having playback overrides turn off when you hit the record button is you get essentially two ‘scenes’ overridden and non overridden, would be cool to have 3 or 4 states like this that you could switch between, would be alot of fun to have multiple parameter variations accessible without even having to flip to a different pattern.

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I also find the override stuff very confusing. At the moment I just press B and then tweak things (e.g. filter cutoff) after I have recorded a pattern but not sure how to record my changes in real-time or why I have to press A or B at all after I press record. I would definitely appreciate it if there was a video demonstrating this functionality as extensively as possible (Does one exist?). It is probably my own fault because I also come from an MPC background but I really want to switch to the s2400 workflow and mindset.

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