This machine would be an absolute monster with a decent analogue filter section!!!
The existing very posh filter knobs link to some very underwhelming dsp based filters.
The DSP card was the wrong choice of card priorities. Why? every standalone box out there has some effect section included and most are just a continuation of a 35 year old fad that often was just a way to spice up a lack lustre basic sound engine, of course there are notable exceptions but in general thats the game.
Thats not to say that Isla arenāt bringing a new take on that old paradigm to the table and it is likely for many S2400 users its an exciting momentā¦just not for this user.
I happened to notice the following in a reply sent by one of the team to another user recently - The slightly less good news is that I canāt guarantee you when this will get fixed. There is a real focus on getting the DSP and Analog filter cards right now so Iām not sure when the S2400 will get an update.
What?! Last time i heard Brad mention the filter card it was more like ānot in the foreseeable futureā in other words a definite back burner situation. Please could one of team shed some light? we wonāt accuse yaāll of doing a Musk like endless promising thing, but just to know if the filter card is still a thing would be great.
Final thought - the dsp card is going to bring some interesting new shiny functionality to the box for sure, but a proper implementation of an analogue filter section will bring the S2400 into the āClassicā status zone! Cāmon guys.
The present digital filters are utilitarian but more than serviceable. The only things Iād really care about with analog filters is being able to overdrive them and Iām not even sure that would be in the design.
Iām much more interested in the DSP card since then I can offload some fx from my DAW and maybe even completely detach from it (depends on some fxā¦ Iāve made some H3000 Factory patches that may require a bit more work replacing). The implementation seems to be creative and not some Korg or Behringer-esque āwhat can we slap on there to gloss over shortcomingsā.
But thatās the nature of developing and releasing products: Brad and co need to weigh their entire customer base and plan off that.
Fully agree with this - āBut thatās the nature of developing and releasing products: Brad and co need to weigh their entire customer base and plan off thatā
That and some other factors are what probably led to them prioritising the DSP card over filter card. I also understood that tests were done with some filter designs but they were not happy with them, absolutely fair enough.
But considering i can already route 8 channels out into my DAW via usb and apply effects in real time to those 8 outs, then maybe sample back into the S2400 again via usb or go analogue etc I donāt see great need. Sure its going to be cool to have a bunch of onboard DSP and for some like yourself maybe getting away from the DAW is attractive.
For me and I am pretty sure I am not alone in this - an ideal instrument be it synth or sampler is one that has great or at least good oscillators/sampling engine combined with great filters, nice analogue filters are sought after by many electronic musicians for very good reasons. Have you ever heard something like the Ensoniq Mirage in person?
The S2400 could gain modern classic status with an analogue filter section with just 2 or 3 filter variants, which will hopefully materialise soon. Iād offer my money now if it would help
Brad knows I LOVE my S2400. My YouTube channel and IG are proof of what Iāve done so far with this unit along with 4 full projects and many singles all produced 100% with the S2400.
But I think if this machine -from the beginning- had a āproperā filter section (ex. old Akai/Emu/Ensoniq gear)ā¦ wooo!!! Modern CLASSIC status on deck.
Thereās no doubt that Brad, Mickey and Vlad are mad scientists and have proved the world they can do whatever they set their minds to, for the most part. Not easy being a small company. They deserve major props and respect.
But I wonder if itās too late to implement these filters to the S2400 software/hardware wise since digital filters are already in place and the DSP cards are a reality.
Did you watch Brads video as to the reason why the filter is on the back burner? In it he clearly stated that the sample filter cards were not up to his standard. Therefore he moved focus to other projects that are also in flight and still up to his standards.
This isnāt a fuck you to anyone he wants it to be right and heās only got so much bandwidth.
I fully agree with your take on it! Apart from - as far as I know the filter card was a twinkle in Brads eye from the beginning, and correct me if I am wrong but there are spaces for 2 expansion cards in the S2400. Only one is taken.
I remember from before my purchase a couple of years ago, watching a video (from approximately a year b4 that) where Brad mentioned the filter card plans and even said that it might be possible to give basic schematics/specs out to third party developers to build their own filter expansion cards!
the filters were one of the standing out feature I bought the S2400 on.
I guess Iām a bit more familiar now with what Iām looking for ā¦
a musical filter similar to the A950 and the SP 1200.
Iām still experimenting but not with the Isla 2400ā¦I thought it would come with software updates but alasā¦
I also feel that the onboard filters are a bit lacking.
Was hoping to see the filterboard earlier than the dsp as I donāt have a use for the dsp. I hope that they take the project back earlier than later.
To be honest Iām just glad that a longer term user and champion of the S2400 like yourself gets the sentiment that Iām trying to talk about regarding the filters.
S950 filter is very nice! but Iām sure that with the will a way could be find found to top even the S950ās creamy filter. What gets me about the S950 is the sampling engine! I sampled a bass hit made on a JP8 into the S950 and the punch on it coming out of the S950 blew the JP8 away!! Iāve no experience in person with the SP1200 but from what I have heard it is again the sound of the sampling engine that i think i pick up on from YT vids. I did have a Mirage in the past, 8bit into analogue low pass filterā¦has to heard to be believed.
Did you read my posts? have a look at my second post in this thread for this -
āI also understood that tests were done with some filter designs but they were not happy with them, absolutely fair enough.ā
Also, there was not even a hint from my posts that implied I thought that Brad or anyone on the team was f youāing anyone.
Getting defensive is admirable an all, when appropriate.
In to say that they could easily fit something as small and amazing as the moog mavis into the housing. That thing is tiny and produces amazing synth sounds.
I think it is important to recognize that different S2400 users are going to prioritize these upgrades differently. Myself, I got the S2400 in order to make as much music āoutside of the box,ā and to have the S2400 as standalone as possible. The DSP card is going to add tons of creative possibilities and adds features that are seriously lacking at the moment.
The current filters are solid and get the job done. Would it be nice to have analog filters like an S950? Of course it would. But I completely agree with the plan to release the DSP card first - it is creating an entirely new feature set instead of improving on an existing one. Upgraded filters are for users who prioritize ultra-premium audio-quality over functionality - which I understand butā¦ the S2400 already sounds really good.
I think the analog filters will be a more niche market, depending on their price. It is much easier to rationalize not buying a small improvement on an existing feature than it is to buy an upgrade that will add completely new features.
I donāt fully understand how the DSP card will work and what effects will be available, but couldnāt you also add new filter effects to the DSP card to add more filter flavors? I suppose you wouldnāt be able to envelope the filter and there would be other limitations but the DSP card will certainly add more creative possibilities and increase the ability to make entire tracks outside of the computer which far exceeds the benefits of a filter card in my opinion.
I was thinking the same thing in regards to using filter plugins with the DSP card. It wouldnāt be the same as van analog filter of course, but Iām sure there are some great sounding ones arm Linux ones out there. The air windows plugins it ships with has a bunch of different filter plugins, so we will have some to try right off the batt. Unless Iām missing something there is also no reason that they couldnāt their own envelopes, but Iām not sure theyād be able to use the S2400ās.
Also if there is a demand for filter plugins Iām sure some will be developed, possibly even emulating classic ones like the S950. The inphonik 950 plugin is a great sounding one, and it would be amazing if someone were to develop an arm Linux one to use on the S2400.
You are right, there will potentially be endless possibilities for development of some amazing DSP based tools including filters, EQ, any and all time based effects etc etc. Re envelopes - pretty sure they will make parameters of the effects controllable using the existing hardware controls, so you should be good there!
I may be in that niche group, and clearly I cannot speak for everyone in the ānicheā group. But i am confident that many in the group and outside the group can understand this - hardware units are like instruments, most musical instruments do not do everything, they perform a specific function in our music making. In the context of samplers (leaving aside sequencing functions for the moment), their base function is to sample, ie reproduce hopefully in some characterful and useful way an input audio source, then we want to be able sculpt the sample in the same way one would sculpt an oscillator in a synth with VCAs and VCFs (and LFOs!)
When I choose a synth for example it comes down 3 things -
The sound of the oscillators.
The sound of the filter circuits.
The playability of the synth (knobs v screens).
My ideal sampler instrument possesses the same basic 3 qualities. The S2400 scores pretty high on points 1. and 3.
My ears have got used to analogue filters, they are in general dramatically more musical than digital, as is a nice desk or rack EQ.
But it is true that I do not get how that set of 3 criteria, are not the same set of criteria for pretty much everyone else who chooses hardware over software
Also, WHICH filter? To be honest, the biggest letdown to me would be a common filter. Another ladder filter, CEM, etc? Oof, not super interested.
Matrix 12/Xpander? Or something like the Emu Z-plane filters in analog? Now we are talking.
I love my Mirage but I have my Mirage for that (and would argue more of its magic comes from its AD/DA stages).
Of course, an open source solution would be best for everyone, I think, similar to the Mutable Instruments Shruthi and Ambika.
Not sure about this obsession with the S2400 being a āmodern classic.ā Sounds like marketing-soaked brains, like āmodern classicā movies quickly to be forgotten. The S2400 rules on its own merits and Iād be using it even if it was widely regarded as a POS.
Still a big fan of the S2400 but I totally agree with the aspect of the filter should have come first or been given more thought in the original design.
People saying the current digital filters are usable need to understand that it means that as a user they have a different requirement or use for filters.
Itās not about what are these great filters that someone is looking for itās that the current ones missed the boat on being able to bark, quack or even gurgle the way many people like to filter.
I really believe that could be taken care of in the code of the current digital filter in a firmware update which would put them in a much more accommodating place, unfortunately that hasnāt happen for whatever reason.
Funny part is I was excited about the DSP card originally until realized that the filter card was separate from the DSP card, not that new filters were part of it.
Iām glad that the response to the DSP card has been positive but itās hard for it to be a valuable add on for me because the interface of the 2400 isnāt something I would enjoy trying to use any choice or specialty plugins on.
I really appreciate how Brad and crew share info because the DSP video showed me without a doubt that I wasnāt the person the DSP card was designed for.
I have no problem with continuing to use processing going into the 2400, processing the individual outs or re-sampling
Why donāt people wait until the DSP card is on effect and replace the onboard filters with better VST choices? I get everyone wants an analog filter but there is still no guarantee people will love them even if they were created as some analog filters are crap.
