Dsp, dsp, dsp!

S2400
204

For those with the DSP card, what do you think are the main benefits vs 8 analog outputs/midi to daw with daw fx / vsts?

I can use all the bundled plugins myself in a daw routed as a like to the 8 physical outs. Likewise, S2400 handles midi well with vst instruments, and i can midi map some physical controls on S2400. Currently have a template in logic that has all my favourite mixing and fx plugins on each out.

Keen to understand the actual benefits of being an intrgrated system. Live FX is one that comes to mind, but what other benefits can users share?

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205

Quick questionā€¦ When my DSP card arrives (currently with EVRI courier UK) Will I still need to apply the DSP Firmware update before updating to the 2025-02-21 Firmware Update?
Or is it all in the one Firmware update now?
Cheers

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I installed the card. Then took the SD card out of my machine and plugged into the computer. Added both the S2400 update and the DSP card firmware to the SD card. Ejected from computer and then applied both at the same time.

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I would say the biggest benefit would be for people who were largely working outside of a DAW and entirely on the S2400 and with hardware effects (pedals and such).

If you wanted to apply effects and stay within the unit itself youā€™d have to send audio out of the analog outs, then into another device, then back. And use the live looping feature to record it all. Not a big deal and if you want to record the effects and even now with the DSP card you still have to use the analog outs and then back in. But also youā€™d had to chain up a bunch of midi cables if your pedal is fortunate enough to have inputs or sync everything by ear. And of course each pedal will be very expensive and just getting 3 pedals can easily total over the cost of the DSP card (depending on the unit it can easily cost more than the DSP card, like the analog Heat+ fx).

With the DSP card itā€™s gonna be cheaper than a bunch of hardware pedals and every time syncable effect is just gonna be clocked to the project tempo and you donā€™t have to fiddle around with a bunch of wires and needing more space to set everything up. I think thatā€™s the clear benefit here.

Compared to a DAW thereā€™sā€¦ honestly gonna be no real comparison. I mean, even using the S2400 (or any hardware sampler) compared to Ableton would seem archaic and cumbersome and feature lite in comparison. But I do enjoy the pitch shifting of the S2400 a lot and resampling phrases with effects applied and then pitching them up or down in Classic + 12 bit modes sounds really good. But yeah, if you already have your workflow down in a DAW there may not be as much of a need here for you.

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208

While I havenā€™t used it in practice yet, I can envision the dsp card allowing for a much more mobile live rig. Iā€™ve been utilizing the 8 outs with a UAD interface and have saved console configurations w/ different plugins for a variety of workflows. Itā€™s a powerful and versatile studio setup that Iā€™m quite happy with. The idea of transporting all that gear around gives me a headache though, so Iā€™m feeling like investing some time into creating workflows for a leaner live rig, one that relies mostly on the dsp card capabilities, could be very fruitful. Itā€™s definitely a work in progress.

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209

Youā€™ll be able to check the firmware on the machine on startup and in the DSP menu. At the rate their putting out firmware updates, likely you will need to update to the latest version.

Edit: think I misread your post. DSP and firmware updates are separate and need to be uploaded individually. Doesnā€™t matter the order I donā€™t think, but you can update simultaneously as noted above.

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It is a completely different workflow and mindset. It decouples your music from the computer, which for many of us allows us to be more musical, involved, and creative since you are not bound to an eye-melting screen, mouse, and key bindings.

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Does save on hardware pedals, amd actually sync of effects particularly delays, is a good point. Is there a good resample workflow using the dsp card? E.g. solo an audio track with its routed fx and then bounce that as a new sample

I get the standalone benefits of the S2400 as is. I use it as my master sequencer as i like structuring my tracks with sequences and then recording song mode setups into Logic. Keeps me in the hardware setup as much as possible and allows me to record tweaking synths into the daw as a full length song performance.

But im not 100% sure how dsp addition will benefit me yet. Seemed like a no brainer initially but the cost is quite high now. Guess want im wanting to see is how well the hardware integrates with this new platform. ISLA have done a fantastic job with the S2400, OS design really gels with me. Iā€™ll wait to see more from users on how they loving this new dsp workflow.

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I did get my card yesterday and have spent several hours messing around with it (luckily yesterday was the start of my weekend).

I will say up front thereā€™s quite a bit of glitches and oddities which will surely be sorted out eventually but given how open in nature this product is it could be awhile. The AirWindows plugins sound great back take up a shit ton of DSP, depending on what the plugin is, and will make the card come crumbling down to its knees in a gross glitchy way. Seems that they are working on modifying the plugins to work better with the card though as they all apparently have a large amount of dithering which is unnecessary for the use case here (I read this on another thread on this forum and Brad mentioned it in the latest live stream from a few days ago).

But these things happens and I think there is a focus on this right now and things are moving pretty quick as far as firmware updates go.

As far as resampling effects: thatā€™s exactly why I got it. Resample and then mess with the S2400 pitch algorithms to get some fun crunch happening on reverbs and delays and such.

Unfortunately thereā€™s no simple ā€œpress the bounceā€ option to bake the effects into a sound. The bounce process takes place before the DSP card. Given how the card is inserted into the audio chain I honestly would be kind surprised if we ever did get a bounce to audio option that happened after the effects chain.

The way to resample is to make use of the live looper and using the physical outputs. It doesnā€™t take much effort to set up, just make sure itā€™s not monitoring the incoming audio or the recorded audio. Basically itā€™s the same workflow as if you were using outboard gear.

But the only way to sample any send effects would be to use the main output and sample back in. It works fine, especially if you have a mono Mix Bus and want stereo effects from the Return tracks, but only if you use your headphones from the headphone jack on the s2400. Otherwise youā€™ll have to disconnect your S2400 from whatever you have it plugged into to resample the sound.

Another interesting quirk / change is that the Analog Filters donā€™t seem to work at all on the Main Outs anymore. They only work on their individual outs. And also, before getting the DSP card if you used any of the individual outs they would be removed from the main out. Example: if I plugged audio cables into 3 and 4 I would no longer hear those on the main outs. Now if I plug an audio cable into 3 and 4 any sound assigned to those outs is still heard through the main outs.

It kinda makes using outboard gear and making an effects loop worse as you wonā€™t be able to monitor just the effected signal when going to the Live Looper. It doesnā€™t matter much when sampling the eternal effects but external effects will be harder to hear whatā€™s actually going on.

But yeah, thatā€™s mostly my thoughts on it so far.

213

I was under the impression that the analog filters were only ever available on the individual outputs. Fixed filters on outputs 1-2 and dynamic filters on 3-6. Checked the manual and it reflects this. I also thought this was a hardware path, so rearranging these filters to go to the main outs wasnā€™t possible. Do you have information that differs?

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214

Whenever I used mine before, as long as nothing was plugged into the individual outs, I would be able to hear the analog filters on the main outs when toggled on and sounds were assigned to the appropriate outs.

Thatā€™s how it was for me for 3 years until I put the DSP card in.

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righ!? Imagine the waveboy fx šŸ«Ø

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I thought the same thing. Ran some tests (pre-DSP install) and thought I confirmed thisā€¦ High end always remained from mains for me. Anyone who knows can you verify?

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I mean, like I said, thatā€™s how it worked for me since 2022. It would have to be assigned to that track and the filter would have to be toggled on in the effects menu. But if I had the 5/6 filter on but everything was going to output 1/2 I obviously wouldnā€™t hear any filtering.

So unless mine was somehow defective this whole time and installing the DSP card fixed that, thatā€™s how it worked for me. I literally never used the individual outs but still got the analog filtering if I wanted it.

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Iā€™ve always used the main outs, but never messed with the analog filters because I thought they were just on the individual outs. I just left all the filters on. Listening back to an old project now, it does seem like the highs are more pronounced. I guess the individual outs were digitally summed at the main mix after the filters and the DSP card has altered that signal flow?

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My DSP card has not arrived yet and Iā€™m pretty sure the main outs replicate the individual outs including the filters. So filters are present on the main outs, thatā€™s correct. Only the USB audio channels are without filters IIRC (not using that).

Itā€™s a bit concerning if the DSP card changes this behaviorā€¦ hopefully we can get more info from ISLA.

Edit: The manual states on page 81: ā€œThe analog filters are not heard in headphones or in USB Audio output, because those outputs are fully digital. The digital filters will be heard because they are digital.ā€ A bit cryptic, but this should mean that the filters are heard on the main outputs.

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220

Yeah the two things Iā€™ve noticed is that audio cables on the individual outs no longer decouple audio from the main outs and the filters no longer are heard on the main outs either.

Iā€™ll triple check just to keep myself honest but Iā€™ve put in several hours testing things since I got it last Thursday and that was my findings.

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221

I just tested - individual cables seem to remove the sound from main output.

The thing currently perplexing me is getting sends/returns working. I get no fx from the main outputs. Anyone else experience this and figure out what they were doing wrong?

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So just to be clearā€¦ you have a DSP card installed and when you plug audio cables into the individual outs itā€™s decoupling them from the main mix and you canā€™t hear it anymore?

Because I just tested again and yeah, what I wrote previously stands true. Filters arenā€™t working on Main out and I no longer get decoupling on the main out.

as far and sends and returns goā€¦ youā€™re pressing Bank+ 0 to go to the DSP mixer page then press 0 again to view the Return tracks A and B (along with the Main mix) and then you press shift + pad 1 to edit return track 1. Plop a reverb on that channel. Back out to the mixer page, press 0 again to see the main bus page and adjust the Top Encoder to send that bus to the return channel? I havenā€™t had any issue getting it working but sometimes a bug will happen where Return track B hasnā€™t worked for some reason. Also had a bug where a track wasnā€™t sending at all. Try a fresh project and see.

Iā€™ve noticed itā€™s helped to, in the mean time, set the S2400 to boot up to ā€œNothingā€ (clean project) rather than the ā€œLast Projectā€ as it cuts down on initial boot times but also has been less buggy for me.

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223

Yes, the main outs are cut off for a sound when I plug in to an individual out.

However, I am not getting any returns or the live fx into the main outs. Iā€™m starting to wonder if I plugged something in wrong, or if Iā€™m doing something else wrong? The FX work fine on inserts and the main outputs are working when no individual outs are plugged in (except for return channels or the live fx) so Iā€™m very confused here.