Mixer Mode: Busses

Mixer Mode: Busses
(Internal mixing stage for Banks and/or freely assigned Sample/Live Loop Track groups)

I don’t know if anyone has suggested this, but here’s an idea for utilizing the S2400 at the internal digital mixing level.

The Bank button advances from the present bank through each letter, A-H. (Alternately you can hold Bank and press F1-8 to access Banks directly.) And each time Bank is pressed, the active Sample, Live Loop, or MIDI Tracks populate Pads/Fader Channels 1-8, right?

This is awesome for browsing each lettered Bank in detail, and I don’t want to change this functionality at all. But the function of the Bank button, if I understand it completely, is simply a direct means of cycling/selecting through/among them, and this made me think: Is there a Shift-Bank function? (My firmware is not up to date, so I can’t be sure.) If selecting a Bank presents a Mixer Mode for the Tracks within that Bank, what about an overview of the internal, digital “gain staging” the sits between the Track level and the physical Output level?

For instance, toggle Shift and press Bank to access “Mix Buss” mode. This would display Pads/Fader Channels 1-8 as Busses 1-8. By default, all the Tracks in Bank A are routed through Buss I, all Tracks in Bank B through Buss II and so on. So by default, each lettered Bank would correlate to each Roman numeral Buss – Bank B to Buss II, etc. But any Track in any Bank can be manually routed through any of the 8 Busses. (Obviously this only applies to the Sample/Live Loops, as we are dealing with the internal digital audio signal flow.)

Any Track in any Buss can either be assigned directly to a physical Output (Main 1-2 by default) or via Buss I-VIII (1-8, however they are counted), and each Buss can be independently routed to any (pair of) Output(s). Faders, Mutes, and Solos when in toggled into Shift-Bank “Mix Buss Mode” apply Busses 1-8, you get the picture, right?

To reiterate, basically just another layer in the signal flow of the digital audio gain structure, as I said, between the Track level and the Output stage. The only reason I even thought about this (aside from the fact that I love bussing in my workflow in general) is because I was watching the video manual v2.0 and thinking about the S2400 for stand-alone, ad-hock, DJ-style mixing of up to 16 stems, in either mono or stereo pairs.

Does this make sense to anyone else? Has it been suggested? (If so, moderator: I trust you to relocate this to the appropriate thread.) Is this already a function? Or am I misunderstanding the internal audio path architecture?

Sorry, I often find my assumptions about the audio engine/sequencer to be ill-conceived or otherwise incorrectly understood. And I’ve been away from closely following S2400 updates or the forum for a while…

Anyway, I thought this idea might be helpful or insightful, if it actually makes sense to Brad, Mickey, and Vlad in any way. I think some implementation of this concept, if not already available or coming down the pipeline, might be a really powerful if not necessary feature in light of the (evidently) upcoming Filter daughter cards, for example. But I don’t feel I have really delved deep enough into my S2400 (and need to update firmware) to know if such an idea is even possible, so this is more of a thought experiment than a feature request.

Cheers all, Big Up the Isla community.

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There is already a shortcut shift+bank that cycles backwards.

Like you said it may be a good idea when implementing effects.

In the current state, I m not using enough tracks to have the need for a bus extra layer but in the future why not yeah. I don’t really like the idea of making the s2400 a super DJ tool for mixing or a super looper station because I think it should have all the basic features for a sequencer/sampler first but let’s see. Still happy to see that the firmware is still in development :slight_smile:

ah yes, now I see that Shift-Bank cycles backward, thanks! guess Micky would need to find an alternate key-combination or something…

good points all around. I would agree that further development of in-depth sequencer/sampler features should take priority. at this point I think most of the crucial features are there, and if anything the extension of features such as increasing support for stereo tracks from eight to 16, as well as others, prompt the investigation of how that extended feature set can be utilized to expand potential of the instrument from primarily sampling and rhythm/time keeping duties into other areas. given the strengths, layout, and core user interface design, I would consider more flexibility of the signal flow in general to be a natural fit. my conception is not to suggest busses as a feature tailored for a specific workflow or usage, but as one that plays into the instrument’s inherent strengths and makes the many ways in which it can be used all the more powerful. a multiplier effect if you will, rather than a simple addition.

in the context of a robust sequencer/sampler however, my perspective is that the addition of busses into the architecture would make performance aspects of the instrument all the more powerful. as I see them, busses are just a mid-tier macro layer of the same user interface design that prioritizes eight long-throw faders, mute, and solo buttons for individual Track channels. but if another person coming from a different perspective has a different idea of what to do with those busses and can easily incorporate the execution of their idea into their unique work flow, then the machine becomes exponentially that much more flexible while retaining it’s ‘core competencies’, if you will.

I would love something like this! I made a similar feature request a long time ago but couldn’t find it now.

I’m hoping something like this will be implemented when the dsp and filter cards arrive.

A bank where the faders and knobs control the effects and filters of the 8 analog outs would be nice.

are you essentially trying to emulate something that could be done with physical outputs and an outboard mixing board? for example taking 4 stereo output pairs for stereo ‘stems’ ?

I could see this being useful if and when the dsp/ filter stuff comes into play but at the moment it would be more of a way to mix groups of similar tracks in the box if I catch what you mean.

pretty much, but more like a DAW, since I’m talking about the internal sequencer Tracks/Fader channels, and not the physical outputs or 16 voice polyphony. (other than choosing which physical output a Track or Buss is assigned to. I mean, the S2400 has an “8 track” interface, with 8 banks. seems pretty straight forward to have busses in the digital mixer in between the Tracks in each Bank and the physical outputs those are fed to. think of it kinda like a “Porta-Studio” mode, in a similar vein to TR-Mode for step sequencing.

for example, leaving aside looping or midi, we have 4 banks of 8 tracks. so you assign 1 bank to percussion, but you want to have another 8, so you assign another bank to percussion duty. now you have all 16 percussion tracks/pads/channels/sequencer lanes, but you want to group them together and control the drum buss on one fader channel with one pair of solo/mute buttons. or say you end up wanting to send 12 channels across two banks to one buss for drums, and you’re going to use the remaining 4 channels for bass, but you want them on a separate buss. so you would assign all of Bank A and Tracks 1-4 from Bank B to Buss I, and Bank B Tracks 5-8 to Buss II.

then you still have two more banks to divide among the remaining 6 Busses, which you could use for harmony and melody. It makes sense when you consider taking the filter envelopes for a single track and breaking them out into 8 multis. I’m just considering a similar thing in the macro-scopic direction, but with the audio signal path. 8 (or more) individual Tracks grouped and controlled by a single Fader channel.

EDIT: Holy shit, what if there were a way to take a MIDI Track from any Bank and route MIDI CC internally from one MIDI fader/mute/solo value to multiple Tracks in any of the other groups, like macros in a digital modulation matrix? that would mean the sequencing of all those MIDI Tracks is already in place, on a per-step basis, including the ability to record and sequence the position of a Fader on a MIDI Track, so for example could you then send CCs internally to control multiple audio Tracks from that single MIDI sequence, and bounce down the result to an internal .wav? :exploding_head: