I’m curious as to people’s opinions on the Envelope page.
For me the behaviour of the envelope page is very frustrating !!
it is the way in which the settings overwrite each other, eg I set a little attack fade, but that attack fade can just be wiped out by going a little far while setting the release. It doesn’t work like any other envelope controls I’ve encountered - standard behaviour (on other synths / software) is if I set a slight attack fade, then that stays fixed no matter what other envelope settings I’m fiddling around with.
The reason seems to be that all the fields are spec’d in % rather than time. So for example setting hold to 100% wipes out any attack and fade that has been previously set.
I guess that this is unlikely to change seeing as it’s been in the OS since day 1, but I’d be interested to hear if anyone prefers it to what I’m calling ‘standard’ behaviour. I’m not seeing the advantages over the traditional way of dialling in envelopes but I’m open to suggestion.
I don’t want to be negative here, but it’s a page on the 2400 that drives me a bit bonkers so wanted to ask the question.
Thanks j.m.
My normal ‘process’ on the 2400 often goes like this:
“Adjust the release, adjust the Hold, oh that’s obliterated the Release what happened there? Readjust the release, move the wrong fader obliterate the release again, readjust the release for the third time…” etc
This doesn’t happen on my other machines or software, I’m not a newbie to envelopes
sorry i honestly can’t help you, i have my method but it varies according to the samples and the mood, it’s music buddy - just let it go where it goes i say
I hear you dude! I wish for an option to have them work ”normally” to. Can be very frustrating at times.
Would also be helpful when working with multi mode, since the envelopes are percentage based they also get stretched when you play a slice/sample pitched down which is something I don’t want most of the times.
For example if you sculpt an envelope for a bass/melody note, all notes played chromatically will have the envelope sound different since they are all different lengths and you have to adjust the envelope for every note individiually, which you know can be frustrating with these envelopes hehe.
Ok that’s interesting, and again I’m not seeing any advantage with this percent based envelope?
Another thing is for me the 6 stage envelope seems like overkill, I’ve not experienced a 6 stage on any of my orher gear. Nice to have the option but the classic ADSR would be more manageable or AHD. 6 stage seems more applicable to a synth but I appreciate the option for sophistication!
The way the envelope parameters overwrite each other also means it doesn’t work when editing from the top level ENV overview page - where you can edit while seeing all 8 channels. The 6 stage env combined with the % system makes this unworkable in my experience. However the classic env works well here, so in principle it could work ok with the hifi (if it worked normally)
@Mickey would it be too complicated to have additional preferences for the envelope section? like AHD / ADSR and using ms instead of % ?
I also really wish that one could toggle between env that are time based as well as switch to percentage.
Sometimes you want the percentage over the length of the whole sample, and sometimes you don’t. It is an alternative/creative idea, but not always the best way.
I think the majority of users likely have a lot of experience with “standard” envelope behavior, and probably are slightly frustrated. I know I am, often.
I like the percentage-based envelopes because they always sound the same when you change the sample pitch. Time-based envelopes would not because the sample length changes when pitch changes.
It depends what you mean by ‘the same’ - for example currently a short attack changes as you raise and lower the pitch - higher pitch/shorter sample/shorter attack; lower pitch/longer sample/longer attack. Where as an attack of 20ms remains 20ms whatever the pitch.
By “the same”, I mean that the attack will always cover the same part of the sample at any pitch, whereas a 20ms attack will cover a different amount of the sample depending on the pitch.
I like them to for some stuff but for some stuff they can be a real pain to work with. Most of the times I use pitch multi mode for example I don’t want the envelopes to stretch/shrink with pitch changes.
Any advance on this subject ? This is maybe the last weird corner of the S2400.
Is there a reason why the classic env is hidden (must be activated) AND in another menu ? As the S2400 is inspired by the SP1200, and as 90% of the time we only need a decay to control the end of a sample, should not it be the first choice, followed by the new HIFI one ?
Also, “HIFI” is a weird term for an envelope, as they don’t make sound and only are a variation of classic ADSR. And why AHDSHR instead of the classic ADSR ? Should not it be the simplest choice first to more complex one, like AD > AHD or AHR > ADSR then AHDSHR in this order ?
But the hardest part for me, is to format my brain to use % rather than time. Why did you make this choice ? I use a modular synth everyday, and i never saw an env with %, even with a eurorack sampler. Do you have some pratical reason ?
THIS, is really really weird and makes me angry each time.
I was hoping it would get some attention in the latest update. A preference to switch to time instead of %, and a preference to have ADSR rather than AHDSHR (who needs a six stage drum envelope?!)
Well, maybe not 6 but i can see when a Hold section could be usefull, for exemple when someone is talking and you want to keep the volume at max until a certain word is reached before kickin the decay or release. Anyway, more complex env should be the last choice.
I think AHD is standard on MPCs isn’t it? 6 stage is such overkill, but I agree - keep it as a preference so projects are backwards compatible. As I said originally, I don’t like to be negative but it’s still the one area of the S2400 that feels completely wonky.
bonkers, what a description !
