I am trying to get the S2400 to MIDI record my Moog and Kawai MP11SE. After working out the kinks, I’m finding that MIDI sustain (damper pedal) isn’t recorded in the MIDI tracks.
That’s a large bummer for piano, and would certainly be relevant to all the soundfont discussions on the DSP card.
Searching the forum, I see a few passing mentions of this, usually along with pitch bend and mod wheel. The term “sustain” only references envelopes in the manual, and “damper” is not present at all.
FWIW - I’ve hit a lot of critical details that have kept the S2400 from being my main studio axe. It’s a bummer because there is a lot to love about this box.
Another biggie (besides aforesaid inability to midi-record an ext-synth’s pitch-bend, mod-wheel and other CCs) is that any long sustained midi-notes (like say long pads, strings, fx, chords, etc.) get cut-off upon each loop repetition.
I guess needing a recording stream for CC and the loop boundaries are the software technical complexities. Having damper, mod, and bend would be a big step for the external MIDI capabilities and in cementing the utility of the internal DSP instruments.
I would be cautiously optimistic for a future implementation. Somewhere on this forum the Isla team hinted that the sequencing architecture presents some underlying challenges that will make these features difficult to address. Fingers crossed though, the team has pulled off some nice surprises.
Yeah for sure. The frustrations voiced above are coming from a relatively positive place - I vastly prefer the vibe of the S2400 to elektron or akai gear, and keep trying to make it the center piece. I make some plans, move some kit, and have so far found a couple of tough details. There may be work arounds. Multi mode is rad and the S2400 sounds amazing. DSP card should mean fully professional drums in the box. I hope the dev team has the runway to go a little further.
it’s a pattern based sequencer.
Just how do you expect us to record long held notes between the end and begining of a pattern?
short of a completely separate sequencer track that is not part of the pattern itself?
It’s a pattern based sequencer dude, not a timeline.
“short of a completely separate sequencer track that is not part of the pattern itself”
I hope that’s a hint for what you guys are working on for next fw
Likewise… I too been wanting/trying to make the S2400 be the true centerpiece for an all-HW setup.
Never tried elektron (I know plenty love it; but looks like a totally diff workflow from what I’m used to). Mpc60 was my centerpiece for about a decade. It was very limited/basic; but, it could do everything I wanted/needed in terms of midi-sequencing ext-synths, ext analog filters, etc. - all CCs, pitch, mod, and also was smooth/non-stepped recording/automation, etc. And editing the midi-notes/params via step/locate-arrows was a breeze.
Since the 60 is uber expensive these days, I guess the best option (for an ex-mpc user) would be to get a modern mpc (One, Live2) and just use it for its’ midi-sequencer. Been on the fence buying one tho… as I have no more desk space and also broke.
Back to the sustain pedal - what I’m trying to do:
Sequence (looped pattern) drums on S2400.
Work out synth bass and piano parts using the MIDI tracks.
The MIDI tracks are awesome because there are 32 of them and can have effectively infinite scratch takes, they take up no meaningful data space, I can edit flubs, change tempo, change the bass sound, etc. The looping allows me to work on parts relative to others, specifically drums sequenced to the melodic material, which is how it frequently happens in live music. I have a Tascam Model 12 sitting after this for linear. Right now, I can get the drums and bass as MIDI / Seq loops, but not having the damper means the piano needs to be live.
Long notes could be addressed with long patterns, but doesn’t otherwise seem solvable in this context. Playing “over the bar line” (loop boundary) will introduce some complexity for damper / sustain, but seems like it could be solved.
I’m not saying never.
But this is not happening in the near term.
We have enough on our plates and a complete rewrite of the sequencer engine is not on the cards right now.
I don’t need the usefulness or merits of this functionality explained to me.
Another bug fix fe is about to drop, along with the DSP manual, then we’re focusing on Caladan.
If @Mickey wants to add anything here, she can. Otherwise, quit pestering us about this please.
This is a pretty weird response, and I’m sorry if you’re having a bad day. I posted 48 hours ago on a very specific finding. I can’t control what other folks post, what other issues it may be related to, or if there is history there. I also make assumptions on what a piece of gear is capable of based on the marketing material.
My time with the S2400 has been deeply frustrating. I’m constantly staring at the machine not knowing what it is doing, and if that is a bug or just an extremely complicated architecture. For $2500 USD, I’ve had an extra box in my closet, lost a ton of my free time, and ruined at least 10 sessions.
I think the general audience has been fairly patient with this process. I’ll hold my tongue on anything further.
This topic has been brought up here several times, people message me privately about it.
While it’s a simple request, it’s not currently simple to implement.
I apologise for my frustrated tone, but I’m tired of answering the question.
Especially when it’s paired with ‘imo the machine is useless unless this is implemented’ or ‘I’m just gonna sell my machine because of this’ like it’s a threat or something.
I’m not directing that at you personally.
This issue is all rooted in us not having the ability to record automation/control messages in between note events.
I’m fully aware this functionality is the last piece of the puzzle to ‘complete’ the s2400, but it requires a MASSIVE overhaul of the whole sequencer engine.
A lot of attention around the release of the DSP has also resurfaced a lot of feature requests, kinda at the wrong time since we obviously have our hands full. So it can get frustrating.
Again, apologies for my tone, it wasn’t directed at you per se.
But I’ll say it again, it’s not something we can change in the short term.
@bradholland thank you for the thoughtful response. I have actually been fairly frustrated with the “I want a jet pack” feature requests, over the last two weeks in particular. Those drown out more subtle “within-architecture” requests that would actually make things better. I don’t know how one parses those or creates a “reasonable request” culture. The team’s work on the DSP card is rad.
My own journey with the S2400 went like this, you can use it or ignore it as you wish: I started using samples, and was trying to use multimode to make different hit levels (ghost/on/accent). Changing envelopes is the next best thing to level, and I really struggled with the hifi envelope. With that, I switched to sequencing my Nord Drum and ran into the “no velocity on MIDI tracks.”
That was a lively thread, I had a buy/sell decision in there and kept it, and @Mickey got that fixed in the first DSP FW update. You’ll find a thank you on that thread. I put the S2400 in the closet for a few months, and tuned back in as DSP was getting real. You saw that I tried DSF content, and may still go that direction. I’m switching up my project from synth bass to piano + synth bass, and moved a bunch of gear around last weekend. That was the above post. Can I work around this? Probably. Would it be rad to have piano loops? Yeah man. I would take a quantized on/off damper message, for whatever that might be worth.
I’m not selling it. You may receive more love notes in the future. I’ve been in the pro space for 25 years (yes, at E-mu as Creative was destroying them) and I believe you’re on the cusp of meaningful sales. I’ve sent Sweetwater your way (Bob M.). It is my opinion that there are some within-architecture minor improvements that would really make this box pop. How to separate that from the “I want a jet pack” bologna, I don’t really know. I understand the fatigue of releases and can see how the deluge is unwelcome.
Hi Brad. Thanks for your replies and work. I’m one of the users that said that regarding the sequencer. It’s not a threat. I was just not expecting to spend 2000€ on a machine that’s advertised as a midi sequencer and can’t perform basic Midi functions that other cheaper machines can do. And it’s very frustrating that you work on new features instead of solving this basic things. Maybe you should advertise this product in a different way. Some people don’t have unlimited amounts of money to spend on gear. It’s very unfair that instead of recognizing this problem you decide to have that tone and ignore some of your clients and the requests about the sequencer that we have been making for years.
Thanks for your reply and all your hard work Brad & team!
I know you guys are overwhelmed with tons of work (esp seeing all these DSP posts the past couple weeks).
We know and totally understand - this may sound like a mere basic/simple feature request. I know it’s anything but tho, and will require tons of work and a complete sequencer rewrite/overhaul. So, totally understand that it isn’t on the plate just yet.
I admit, I’m one of the main pushers of this feature; but, I’ve only mentioned it a handful of times, and only seldom, spread out over the course of 3-4 years, waiting patiently. I’ve never messaged/emailed you about it… I’ve only posted about this every so often, very seldom, just as a respectful reminder of what I/we want/need. Also, no offense, but, you usually never replied or gave detailed responses to any of those midi-seq-related request-posts (I think this is the first time you have given a detailed statement on the subject).
I love the S2400… hence, why I keep it and dream of it being a true-centerpiece for a HW setup.
Btw… I know ya’ll are a very small team (and hence, very swamped/busy w/ work); but, have you considered collaborating with others to help you out? JJOS team are highly proficient with writing excellent midi-sequencers and would probably make the S2400 shine even more so.
Dude, I think it’s over and we need to give up. A fundamental “feature” request gets such an aggravated response that we are pestering, ha! A massive oversight in figuring out requirements somehow leaves us in the wrong. This is just ridiculous.
Clearly Roger Linn was even more ahead of his time than we expected
Yeah, I don’t think it was even 3-4 years that I said earlier… probably +6 years (ever since the midi-seq was added to FW) which I only asked a handful of times (maybe 10 at most to be fair).
Nothing like all the others asking about backorders and/or dsp fx every second, everyday.
Even if it was implemented, there’s prolly still gonna be bugs, a lot of menu-diving, odd quirks and also still difficult to edit per step w/ arrow buttons.
The S2400 is still a great machine for people that have other external midi-sequencers, or to just use it as-is as a drum-machine-sampler or with no midi’d synths.
A beautiful machine; but, I have to let it go, as I’m not the type with a big studio with countless gears.
Nothing really beats the mpc workflow imo; I sure do miss it.
I plan to just get the X (mainly for all its’ outputs and also midi-ins/outs, as well as its’ 16 q-link knobs & more buttons [more buttons, less menu diving]) and run RX950 & RX1200 to satisfy my 12-bit needs.
Mint S2400 up for sale if anyone wants to buy it, PM me.
A fundamental feature request on a MIDI sequencer, of which was a bonus gift in a firmware update.
The S2400 was never slated to have midi tracks or be a midi sequencer until all of a sudden it was.
So we deliver something, and then I’m a piece of shit because it doesn’t do something you want it to that it was never capable of in the first place?
Yeah, this is just ridiculous.
Slow your row dude, or sell your machine, all you ever seem to do is moan or point out the machines shortcomings. Give me a break. I’m not holding you back from making any music.
