This would really set the S2400 apart from other hardware sampling drum machines! There’s not much more important than correct phase when dealing with sample sources that the end-user didn’t record, or making sure samples play well with each other.
Hoping to get some support from other users on this request. It’s super important to have good phase relationships, especially between low frequency percussive instruments. Adding this to the Track Settings menu (if possible) would really be a powerful tool
It would be nice to have a quick phase flip option in track settings for things like layering kicks. However the 8 voice limit is a real discouragement for doing that. This feature combined with resampling two (or more) pads to one would be amazing for layering and minimising phase issues.
Ok, so I’ve been trying to get support for this feature to help keep the low end of my sessions slamming cleanly. But, here’s a genuine reason why it would be a good addition:
The S2400 inverts the phase of everything it samples. Not sure why this was overlooked in development. The only way to get a proper phase relationship to the sample source is to use one of the dynamic filters, who’s circuits flip the phase 180 degrees by design.
There’s my best argument for including this feature. Thanks for looking
Would definately be a good feature to have in track settings, especially when we get a feature to merge layered sounds as mentioned above.
Phase only applies to sources recorded with multiple mics. With individually recorded samples there is no phase relationship - so no cancellation.
That is not true.
What is the phase relationship?
Let me clarify what I was referring to as “not true” above. Phase is definitely very important to check and get right when you’re engineering a recording session with multiple mics. But, these days folks also make music using elements that were recorded all over the place, at different times, with different engineers. It’s very important when combining sounds, especially low frequency percussion and bass sounds, to check that the phase relationship is how you want it to be. You will in a lot of cases find that a couple (or more) out of phase low end elements can punch much harder when you get their phase relationship right.
In some cases you may personally like the way a couple samples sound out of phase better, in your project. But, it’s nice to have the option.
Phase only comes into play when there are two signal destinations from a single source… 2 or more mics recording a single instrument. Or 2 guitar pickups - flipping the phase on one will cancel out frequencies. With separate tracks recorded from different sources there is no phase relationship. They cannot be out of phase. When mixing there almost always is a build up of frequencies with tracks - that’s what eqs are for. Flipping phase on unrelated tracks will likely cause more problems than it solves.
Thanks @LonzoB for checking out, engaging, and bumping up my Feature Request post. This definitely helps get more eyes on the thread. It seems like you would be against implementing a per track 180 degree phase inverting option on the S2400 because, in your engineering experience, you would never need to use it. I’m sure the developers will take your thoughts into account
Thanks Man, I enjoy reading your posts and contributions. Phase is definitely a deep topic and I’m still learning - Thanks being positive.
Phase cancelation can definately occur to varying degrees with separately recorded elements. That’s a big reason why you check the mono compability of your stereo mixes for example.
Layering kick sounds for example can definitely need phase flip some times.
Ok, this is a good topic. You are partially right and here’s the problem we all run across…
If the frequencies are too close, you will have cancellation where the waves meet in opposite directions. A phase flip may or may not help. Back in the day it was the only tool they had on the console. Phase invert is a blunt tool - sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn’t. You have much finer control by editing the start point of your samples to control their phase relationship.
I won’t assume to tell someone how to produce, but I layer sounds of different frequencies to avoid getting muddy.
I record multi-mic live drums (I do flip the bottom snare) I use a plugin to phase align the tracks. I get the drums right and I’ve never had phase correlation issues.